WASHINGTON -- The former U.S. special envoy for Ukraine told House investigators Thursday that he warned President Donald Trump's personal attorney, Rudy Giuliani, that Giuliani was receiving untrustworthy information from Ukrainian political figures about former Vice President Joe Biden and his son, according to two people familiar with his testimony.
Kurt Volker, who resigned last week after being named in a whistleblower complaint that sparked the House impeachment inquiry of Trump, said he tried to caution Giuliani that his sources, including Ukraine's former top prosecutor, were unreliable and that he should be careful about putting faith in the prosecutor's theories, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity to discuss the private meeting.
Volker's testimony offers the first inside account of the Trump administration's efforts to press for a Ukrainian investigation into Biden, who is a leading 2020 Democratic candidate to challenge Trump for the White House.
At the heart of Trump's effort is Giuliani's contention that, as vice president, Biden pushed for the firing of Ukraine's former prosecutor general, Viktor Shokin, as part of a corrupt plot to halt investigations into Burisma, a Ukrainian natural gas company that employed Biden's son Hunter.
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Joe Biden and his defenders have denied the accusation and noted that Biden's push to remove Shokin was part of a broader international effort that included the European Union and the International Monetary Fund, where leaders viewed Shokin as inept.
In an interview Thursday night, Giuliani said he was aware of "conversations" between U.S. and Ukrainian officials about a statement that would commit the Ukrainians to "investigate everything, including Burisma." But Giuliani stressed that "to my knowledge, it was never put out."
The New York Times reported earlier that Volker and the U.S. ambassador to the European Union, Gordon Sondland, drafted the statement for Ukraine's president. CNN later reported that the draft originated with the Ukrainians and was provided to Volker, Sondland and Giuliani.
Volker also told lawmakers Thursday that he and other State Department officials cautioned the Ukrainians to steer clear of U.S. politics. Getting involved, he said he told them, would open the nation to allegations that it was interfering in an American election and could be detrimental to Ukraine long-term, according to the two individuals.
Volker faced hours of questioning Thursday from members of the House committees leading an impeachment inquiry into Trump, the first of five former and current State Department officials to testify as part of the inquiry.
In discussing Giuliani's sources, Volker specifically mentioned former Ukrainian prosecutor general Yuri Lutsenko, a controversial figure in Ukrainian politics in part because of his battles with the country's anti-corruption bureau.
Volker was named in the whistleblower complaint as the diplomat who set up a meeting between Giuliani and a top adviser to Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskiy during Trump's effort to compel an investigation of the Bidens. House investigators asked Volker if that pressure included withholding a leader-level meeting with Zelenskiy and about $400 million in military aid from the country, those familiar with the meeting said.
Volker acknowledged, these people said, that the Trump administration had extended an invitation to Zelenskiy shortly after his election in the spring and that it was later withdrawn. Volker told House investigators that Trump's delay in meeting Zelenskiy and the decision to halt military aid deeply concerned Ukrainian officials, who view Washington as a critical ally against Russia, the people familiar with his testimony said.
Volker said Thursday that he was never given an explanation about the aid suspension.
Volker started his job at the State Department in 2017 in an unusual part-time arrangement that allowed him to continue consulting at BGR, a lobbying firm that represents Ukraine and the U.S.-defense company Raytheon. During his tenure, Volker advocated for the U.S. to send Ukraine Raytheon-manufactured antitank Javelin missiles. BGR has said Volker recused himself from all Ukraine-related matters in response to criticism about conflicts of interest.
On Thursday afternoon, the State Department announced that it had approved the sale of 150 additional Javelin missiles to Ukraine for up to $39.2 million and notified Congress.
In late July, a day after Trump's call with Zelenskiy, the whistleblower says Volker and Sondland held a meeting with Zelenskiy and gave him advice about how to "navigate" Trump's request.
The White House denies the accusation of a "quid pro quo" with Ukraine and says Trump withheld aid to Ukraine out of frustration over Europe's lack of support for Ukraine and continued problems related to corruption in the country.
CALL ON CHINA
As the impeachment inquiry focuses on Ukraine, Trump doubled down Thursday by publicly calling on China to also investigate Biden and his family, potentially setting off more alarms in Congress.
"China should start an investigation into the Bidens," Trump said outside the White House. Trump said he hadn't directly asked Chinese President Xi Jinping to investigate, but it's "certainly something we could start thinking about."
In calling for China to investigate the Bidens, Trump referred to a business deal Hunter Biden was in that involved a fund drawing from investment from the Chinese government-owned Bank of China.
The fund was announced in late 2013 -- days after Hunter Biden and one of his daughters flew to China from Japan aboard Air Force Two with the vice president. The vice president was in the midst of a diplomatic mission to calm rising tensions in the region and warning Chinese leaders not to use fighter jets to enforce an air defense zone created by Beijing over contested waters. Hunter Biden and his daughter participated in a few public events there with Biden.
Conservative author Peter Schweizer claimed that Hunter Biden used the trip to secure a deal with the Bank of China.
But a lawyer for Hunter Biden has said he did not conduct any business related to the China investment fund on that trip, and that he was never an equity owner in the fund while his father was vice president. Hunter Biden later acquired a 10% interest in the entity that oversees the fund, but has not received any money from the arrangement, according to the lawyer.
After Trump's China comments Thursday, Biden's campaign fired back, asserting in a statement that the president was "desperately clutching for conspiracy theories that have been debunked and dismissed by independent, credible news organizations."
"What Donald Trump just said on the South Lawn of the White House was this election's equivalent of his infamous 'Russia, if you're listening' moment from 2016 -- a grotesque choice of lies over truth and self over the country," Kate Bedingfield, Biden's deputy campaign manager, said in the statement.
VOLKER INTERVIEW
Meanwhile, Democrats left Thursday's deposition arguing that Volker's testimony only further confirmed the damage Trump and Guiliani did to U.S. foreign policy on behalf of the president's political interests. Volker, they said, made clear that the Ukrainians were confused and upset by the administration's decisions to delay the diplomatic visit and stall the military aid -- and that they did not know how to handle the situation.
"I walk away very bothered by the fact that a private citizen, albeit the attorney to the president, is roaming around another country purporting to wear a semiofficial hat and explicitly trying to dig up dirt on domestic political opponents," said Rep. Gerald Connolly, D-Va.
Republicans said Volker's testimony fell far short of revealing the "quid pro quo" narrative promoted by Rep. Adam Schiff, D-Calif., who as head of the House Intelligence Committee is leading the impeachment inquiry along with the heads of the House Foreign Affairs and Oversight committees.
"Nothing he has said supports the narrative you've been hearing from Mr. Schiff and the Democrats, nothing," Rep. Jim Jordan, R-Ohio, one of Trump's top allies on Capitol Hill, said after more than two hours of Volker's testimony.
Throughout Volker's interview, Giuliani continued to tweet images of text messages he exchanged with the former special envoy, posts attempting to counter criticisms that he was conducting rogue U.S. foreign policy in his capacity as Trump's personal attorney.
"Volker reached out to me," Giuliani tweeted.
In advance of his appearance Thursday, Volker had turned over a number of documents to congressional staff members including chains of text messages with Giuliani and other State Department officials, said people familiar with the documents.
On Thursday, Fox News and ABC News each obtained text messages appearing to show a top U.S. diplomat to Ukraine, Bill Taylor, expressing concern that the Trump administration was trying to carry out a quid pro quo. "I think it's crazy to withhold security assistance for help with a political campaign," read the message.
The exchange took place in September. The group text included Volker and Sondland, who denied that a quid pro quo was in the works, according to Fox News and ABC News.
"Bill, I believe you are incorrect about President Trump's intentions," Sondland said in a text. "The President has been crystal clear: no quid pro quo's of any kind. The President is trying to evaluate whether Ukraine is truly going to adopt the transparency and reforms that President Zelensky promised during his campaign."
Republicans also argued Thursday that because Democrats have not yet voted in the House to open a formal impeachment inquiry, Democrats lack the authority to set certain rules for the hearing.
Republicans are increasingly calling the impeachment proceedings into question as a way to sow doubt and put pressure on House Speaker Nancy Pelosi to force a vote that would put Democrats on record for an impeachment inquiry.
Kevin McCarthy, the leader of House Republicans, said Pelosi should halt proceedings until then. "The American people deserve assurance that basic standards of due process will be present," he said in a letter to the speaker.
In response, Pelosi wrote to McCarthy that "there is no requirement under the Constitution, under House Rules, or House precedent that the whole House vote before proceeding with an impeachment inquiry."
She added, "We hope you and other Republicans share our commitment to following the facts."
Information for this article was contributed by John Hudson, Rachael Bade, Karoun Demirjian, Mike DeBonis and Dan Lamothe of The Washington Post; by Eric Tucker, Lisa Mascaro, Mary Clare Jalonick and Alan Fram of The Associated Press; and by Nicholas Fandos, Julian E. Barnes, Peter Baker and Eileen Sullivan of The New York Times.
A Section on 10/04/2019